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i never got any money from you

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[Music]

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ufo might just as well stand for

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unprecedented financial opportunity

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be normal

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this is the saucer life a podcast in

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which we examine concepts events or

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people orbiting the world of flying

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saucers few preconceptions snark when

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justified no belief no debunking

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no i couldn't believe this one either

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when i first happened to cross it

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this is the story of harold j bernie

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we've dealt with several saucer types

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who have skirted the law in various ways

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over the four-year history of this

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program

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most of the time they're

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not committing any actual crimes they're

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being

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in some cases profoundly dishonest in

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other cases profoundly

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misguided or misunderstood but sometimes

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they actually do violate the law in a

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way that is

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egregious and obvious and documented

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enough to get noticed by law enforcement

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picked up

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arraigned indicted

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put on trial

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convicted

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sentenced to some sort of penance

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reinhold schmidt is the the case that

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usually pops into my head

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there are other saucer felons

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who are

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still around

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talking and making statements and thus i

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will not talk about them but today we've

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got one who is really in a class by

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himself and that is harold j bernie so

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like just about every topic on the

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saucer life i'm not the first one

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to discuss harold j bernie's story on

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the internet or in books or

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on podcasts even but

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i did want to go about this in a way

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that was the least likely to

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i don't know get me accused of copying

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what other people have done so

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there's an article at a site called the

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saucers that time forgot and there's a

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link in the show notes that is very very

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good and they do a great job of

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presenting the entire story and i didn't

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just want to duplicate exactly what they

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did there or be accused of duplicating

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exactly what they did there so what i've

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decided to do is take the story directly

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from newspaper and magazine accounts of

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the time that i could find

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not that saucers that time forgot didn't

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do that but they go into a lot of stuff

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that is interesting

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but is their own original research from

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you know much more intensive things than

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i honestly have time to do so his early

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life his early crimes a lot of that a

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lot of great background on this

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particular interesting figure is over at

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the saucers that time forgot but i

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decided to sort of reconstruct things

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from those primary sources which is what

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we do here really as you know

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but i must say i would not have had as

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much background and leads and good

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knowledge to get started in sort of

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digging into my own

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newspapers.com account and things like

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that looking for the bernie story

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looking at the bernie story if not for

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the incredible work at saucers that time

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forgot so they really are

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kind of

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you know doing some amazing work on

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early

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odd ufo sorts of things i encourage you

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to check out their website

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so what we're going to be doing is we're

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going to be looking at the initial

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newspaper reports about what bernie did

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which is basically a scam involving

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saucers and also a contact story it's

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very similar to the sort of thing

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reinhold schmidt did in fact there's a

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lot of overlap and i kind of wonder

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if schmidt might have gotten some of his

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ideas from bernie

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that's a question i'm to throw out to

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y'all in the audience as you as you

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listen but we're also going to look at

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and sort of fill in some of the gaps in

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this story from later accounts

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particularly one by supposedly by j

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edgar hoover of the fbi himself writing

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for

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i think was called this week it was sort

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of

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supplements that go out nationwide in

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local newspapers like parade but without

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that one terrible advice column by that

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woman with the supposedly super high

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iq

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so anyway enough of how i'm going to do

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this i think i think it's best to just

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go ahead and get started doing it

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so harold j burney harold jesse bernie

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was born on july 9 1898 in akron

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michigan

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and he spent a lot of his young life in

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michigan

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moved around as a young adult

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got in a lot of trouble um

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may have

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violated the man act which those of you

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who know what the man act is know that

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that's

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transporting people

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underage people across state lines for

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improper purposes it's a whole

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litany of

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violations and shadiness that make up

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harold j bernie's

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life before he gets involved in the scam

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that brought him

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to the attention of flying saucer people

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and

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eventually the fbi or maybe

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the other way around as we'll see like i

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said the saucers the time forgot article

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and harold j bernie does an incredible

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job of detailing his

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his early criminal life up until the

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point where we get to it where we pick

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it up so for his early life his early

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crimes i urge you to check out

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that

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website

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so regarding our current crime or the

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crime for which he got noticed by ufo

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world

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the earliest article i found that i had

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access to was from the montgomery

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advertiser in march 27 1957 and actually

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i should say this is an associated press

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story that appeared in some newspapers

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on march 26th the first one i came

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across was march 27 1957 but the ap

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story was dated march 26th and as we saw

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in some other episodes such as the

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levelland case a lot of times

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you've got

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dozens and dozens of nearly identical

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stories

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because of wire service reports that get

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picked up by local newspapers

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so the headline for this one in the

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montgomery advertiser montgomery alabama

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advertiser march 27

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1957 package from venus aided fraud

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inquiry of

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the fbi said today a package from venus

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figured in the investigation which led

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to the arrest in alabama yesterday of a

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58-year-old sign painter accused of

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operating a space-aged swindle the man

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charged is harold j burney formerly of

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washington where he operated a concern

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known as telewand corporation according

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to the fbi he has a police record dating

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back to 1917 and has served time in a

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[Music]

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the ap story goes on to explain that he

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was picked up in pritchard alabama by

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federal agents the photograph had been

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circulated throughout the entire south

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because he was charged with quote

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persuading residents of the capital area

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to invest thousands of dollars in the

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development of communications with venus

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it then mentions that bernie had written

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a book an unpublished book relating that

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he had made trips to venus by flying

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saucer after making rendezvous with

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venusians in texas now this package he

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received

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bernie's wife here last november 12th it

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purported to come from outer space but

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was delivered through regular u.s postal

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service the package contained bernie's

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camera his billfold and a wallet

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containing his identifications and

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credentials also inside was a letter

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from a mr useless reputedly a resident

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on venus the letter informed mrs burney

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that her husband had recently been on a

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business trip to that planet and had

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died there of natural causes mrs burney

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turned over the package and letter to

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local police and fbi agents when they

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started investigating bernie's

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activities several weeks ago

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just in case it wasn't clear from the

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excerpt mrs bernie received a package

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from venus with a letter from a mr

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useless saying that bernie had died on

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venus

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so this letter is not reprinted or

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quoted in the article but don't worry we

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are going to have

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a sample of the types of letter that mr

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useles would write to earthlings from

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venus later on in the story so bernie

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had been under investigation for some

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time the investigation wasn't public

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apparently because the fbi wanted to

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make sure they had their ducks in a row

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with warrants and charges and you know

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being able to make things stick before

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they arrested bernie bernie was a i

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think we can safely call him a lifelong

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criminal and any hint that

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they were on to him he might go to

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ground they might not be able to find

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them

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but

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the whole story of how the fbi got on to

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bernie and what bernie was actually up

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to

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is what comes next in this initial ap

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story

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and it involves that book that he was

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writing

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the unpublished book entitled two weeks

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on venus actually triggered the

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investigation a local representative of

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a national book publishing house who saw

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the manuscript became suspicious and

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suggested to washington police that they

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investigate

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the police after preliminary inquiry

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called in the fbi

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now this is interesting you might be

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thinking why would a publisher or a

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representative of a publishing house

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look at a manuscript for a submitted ufo

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book a contact-e-style book and say whoa

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i better call the police about this

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flying saucer book it's kind of a

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convoluted story we don't have i've not

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been able to find a copy of the

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unpublished manuscript i

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it's probably somewhere in a evidence

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file somewhere if it hasn't been

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destroyed we'll talk about what fbi

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files exist later on in the episode but

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it isn't so much necessarily the content

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of the book

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as the

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background of the creation of the book

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that alarmed both

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bernie wrote the book of 15 chapters in

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longhand and turned it over for typing

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to miss pauline e goble a washington

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secretary who has since complained that

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she invested her 38 thousand dollar life

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savings in bernie's plan to maintain

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communication with venus she offered the

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manuscript for publication to a number

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of concerns one of which became

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suspicious when she mentioned her

282
00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:16,160
investment in the interplanetary

283
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:19,120
communication scheme

284
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:21,440
so it's not the content of the book

285
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,160
itself necessarily that was the problem

286
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:26,640
i mean publishers had published flying

287
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:29,120
saucer books for almost 10 years at this

288
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:32,720
point it was the fact that pauline gobel

289
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:36,000
had apparently offhand

290
00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:39,120
mentioned that to somebody that she had

291
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:40,640
invested her

292
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:43,200
life savings in bernie's plan

293
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:44,640
somebody's

294
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:48,160
fraud detectors scam detectors went off

295
00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:48,959
so

296
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:50,240
as the

297
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:51,920
article closes

298
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:54,480
it mentions the names of a couple

299
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:57,040
chapters from the book and

300
00:12:01,350 --> 00:11:59,920
i have to say i i say this almost every

301
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:01,360
episode almost every episode i find

302
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:03,200
something that is my new favorite flying

303
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:06,639
saucer thing but i don't think that

304
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,560
these chapter titles especially the

305
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,560
second one that you're going to hear are

306
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:12,800
going to be knocked off the top of my

307
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:19,190
the book includes a chapter called

308
00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:21,839
dinner with wisdom and one titled the

309
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,150
world explodes in my face

310
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:26,480
[Music]

311
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,360
the world explodes

312
00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:31,600
in my face

313
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:33,920
it doesn't get any better than that

314
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:36,639
folks it just doesn't i

315
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:37,920
i don't know

316
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:40,480
submit your answers on a digital social

317
00:12:46,069 --> 00:12:43,519
media postcard for a single

318
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:46,079
contact ebook ufo book flying saucer

319
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,959
book

320
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:48,480
chapter title

321
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:52,639
that is more intriguing or strange then

322
00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:55,920
the world explodes in my face

323
00:13:00,550 --> 00:12:58,720
now i've got to say dinner with wisdom

324
00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:00,560
sounds like if you were to take the

325
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:02,160
statistical

326
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:03,200
mean

327
00:13:07,910 --> 00:13:04,880
of

328
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,920
contact chapter book titles it's

329
00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:09,760
it's sort of i think i'm not going to

330
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:12,000
run across the studio to grab it but

331
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:14,959
there is a a chapter in

332
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:16,959
george damsky's book where he's inside

333
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,880
the spaceships where he's i think it's

334
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,320
called dinner with the master or

335
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:22,240
something like that so that might be

336
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:25,200
clearly a lift from that but dinner with

337
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:28,560
wisdom sounds very contactish but

338
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:31,519
the world explodes in my face

339
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:33,680
doesn't sound good so that's the initial

340
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:35,680
public version of the story presented

341
00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:38,880
through the press we've got this man

342
00:13:43,829 --> 00:13:41,600
harold j bernie who has been arrested

343
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:43,839
because he may have defrauded a woman

344
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,760
out of some money with a fake flying

345
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,519
saucer book and there's a letter that

346
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,760
said he died on venus but apparently he

347
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,519
didn't because

348
00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:53,680
the fbi arrested him now like i said

349
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:56,800
earlier that was a wire service story

350
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,440
they were very similar very oh they were

351
00:14:03,189 --> 00:14:01,519
similar they were identical

352
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:03,199
may be edited in different ways

353
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:05,360
condensed sometimes the full versions

354
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:06,800
and other newspapers but across the

355
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:09,760
country you get basically the same story

356
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:12,800
but also in the montgomery advertiser

357
00:14:18,550 --> 00:14:16,320
april 2nd 1957 not too long later maybe

358
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:18,560
about a week later we've got an article

359
00:14:23,110 --> 00:14:22,079
headlined space man and this is

360
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:23,120
a

361
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:34,399
i like this so

362
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:35,199
um

363
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:37,440
let's take a listen to this because i

364
00:14:42,790 --> 00:14:40,399
think it is valuable and it gives a

365
00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:42,800
perspective that isn't like the wire

366
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:45,040
service stories because

367
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:46,800
wire service stories are very sort of

368
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,600
factual not a lot of jokes

369
00:14:55,509 --> 00:14:51,600
but the world explodes in my face you

370
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:57,590
when man has explored all there is to

371
00:15:01,269 --> 00:14:59,760
explore in the solar system we hope the

372
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,279
record books will record the part

373
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,360
alabama plate and we aren't talking

374
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,600
about redstone arsenal at huntsville a

375
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:08,000
few days ago the fbi arrested a man in

376
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:09,519
pritchard alabama who was the first

377
00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:11,519
citizen of whom we have any knowledge to

378
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,600
claim to have visited outer space

379
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:15,680
harold j bernie is the name and he has

380
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,279
written a book about his experiences

381
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,680
going to and living on venus

382
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,199
bernie says in his book that he was

383
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,920
picked up by a flying saucer in texas

384
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,199
where else

385
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,199
there was a big red ball suspended in

386
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:29,680
mid-air from the saucer and a few frozen

387
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:32,160
bodies lying around casual-like the

388
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:34,480
saucer however was a short-range model

389
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:36,000
somewhere out there bernie and his

390
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,680
creepy friends changed to a building the

391
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:39,680
size of the pentagon and went the rest

392
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:41,040
of the way in it

393
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,519
on venus bernie says he died of

394
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:46,000
supernatural causes probably but in the

395
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:48,079
custom of venus he was reincarnated in

396
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:50,079
which state he observed the science and

397
00:15:54,069 --> 00:15:51,600
culture of the planet

398
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:54,079
meanwhile back in the states a harold j

399
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,680
bernie was serving time for selling

400
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,680
watered stocks in michigan eight years

401
00:16:01,670 --> 00:15:59,600
for violating postal regulations in west

402
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:01,680
virginia five years in clearwater

403
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,240
florida and other things

404
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,800
probably just a coincidence but the fbi

405
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,800
thinks the venus tourist and the con man

406
00:16:12,069 --> 00:16:10,320
are one in the same they arrested him

407
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,079
for bilking a washington woman and a

408
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,959
rhea both delaware man out of 58 000 to

409
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,399
invest in a plan to establish

410
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:18,240
communications between the earth and

411
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:21,040
venus he had he said been commissioned

412
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:23,040
for the interplanetary work by officials

413
00:16:26,629 --> 00:16:24,639
on venus

414
00:16:28,870 --> 00:16:26,639
so though future historians may discount

415
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:28,880
the role of bernie in space exploration

416
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:30,399
he is a claimant

417
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,519
and

418
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,120
must be dealt with

419
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,040
alabama was singularly honored in that

420
00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:37,279
of all the places on two planets

421
00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:38,580
he was arrested here

422
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:47,670
so the book existed the book was written

423
00:16:53,670 --> 00:16:50,800
we know that but where is the book here

424
00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:53,680
i rely on the work that the saucers that

425
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:55,199
time forgot

426
00:17:01,509 --> 00:16:58,959
folks did and the fbi possesses the only

427
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:01,519
copy of two weeks on venus

428
00:17:05,189 --> 00:17:02,800
it was quoted

429
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:05,199
in newspaper reports as we've seen and

430
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:07,039
they've filed freedom of information

431
00:17:12,150 --> 00:17:10,079
requests for bernie's materials and and

432
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:12,160
the books the book the copy of the book

433
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:13,439
and everything

434
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,679
and they are still waiting as of at

435
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:17,520
least what i know right now

436
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,559
they are still waiting so they said they

437
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:22,559
will update visitors to their site when

438
00:17:26,309 --> 00:17:24,720
they get a copy and once i'm able to get

439
00:17:28,150 --> 00:17:26,319
a copy you will

440
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,160
be guaranteed of a saucer life

441
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:30,240
investigation or

442
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:34,480
analysis or gentle mocking of two weeks

443
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,200
on venus the april 15th edition of time

444
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:39,840
magazine in 1957 also picked up on the

445
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:42,640
story and provided some extra details of

446
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:44,559
how this scam

447
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:48,640
went down it begins like this

448
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:50,559
it was a happy day for harold jesse

449
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:52,480
bernie when he ran into pauline global

450
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:55,120
in washington dc six years ago happy for

451
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:56,559
pauline too

452
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:58,559
bernie told the fascinated miss goble he

453
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:00,960
was a manufacturer of tv antennas and

454
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:02,559
was about to embark upon the production

455
00:18:07,110 --> 00:18:04,320
of a revolutionary device called the

456
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:07,120
modulator wide-eyed pauline listened to

457
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:09,520
harold's story and a real whopper it was

458
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,200
harold had been in touch with officials

459
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:13,520
of the planet venus matter of fact he

460
00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:16,000
had visited venus in a flying saucer and

461
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,520
after two wonderful visits with his

462
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:19,440
venusian hosts had won the honor of

463
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,120
presiding over the earthly development

464
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,039
of the modulator which would collect

465
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:25,200
energy much more powerful than atomic

466
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:28,480
power from the atmosphere

467
00:18:31,590 --> 00:18:30,080
so we're getting some more details here

468
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:31,600
and it's a little different from what

469
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:33,679
had been reported before isn't it we

470
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,559
don't just have venusian technology to

471
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:38,640
communicate with venus this is this

472
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,960
modulator is something that could be

473
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:42,480
used to

474
00:18:48,230 --> 00:18:45,600
gather energy to be a new energy source

475
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:48,240
and potentially a weapon which is why

476
00:18:52,630 --> 00:18:50,640
the government gets involved and one

477
00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:52,640
thing that's going to become clear

478
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,160
is that

479
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:55,679
bernie

480
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:58,559
consistently implies to

481
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,880
pauline gobel and other investors that

482
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:02,000
we will meet

483
00:19:07,350 --> 00:19:04,880
that he is working not only with a major

484
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:07,360
corporation which we eventually learn is

485
00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:10,240
he claimed was westinghouse but also

486
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,320
with the american government because not

487
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:14,640
only of the energy production potential

488
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:17,600
of the modulator but its potential use

489
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:21,039
as a weapon so pauline invests 38

490
00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:23,280
thousand dollars and

491
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:25,520
by i'm gonna see how much that is in

492
00:19:31,669 --> 00:19:28,960
today's money okay that's about 384

493
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:31,679
thousand dollars adjusted for inflation

494
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:32,799
that is

495
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:35,280
wild

496
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:36,400
so

497
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,280
she's not just giving bernie money she

498
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:41,760
is now working with him

499
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:45,280
and helping round up other investors and

500
00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:47,679
the other major investor was a man named

501
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:49,919
delaware it was mentioned in that last

502
00:19:54,070 --> 00:19:51,840
alabama article we looked at and his

503
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,080
name and this is a great name

504
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:56,240
pleasant mccarty

505
00:20:01,470 --> 00:20:00,720
thousand dollars and at this point in

506
00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:01,480
the

507
00:20:05,110 --> 00:20:04,320
mid-1950s we're still little ways away

508
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:05,120
from

509
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:08,000
the arrest or quote the present in our

510
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:08,880
story

511
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:12,159
pauline starts typing up the handwritten

512
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:15,280
manuscript of two weeks on venus and

513
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:17,919
then things start to unravel a little

514
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,390
last october harold decided it was about

515
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,480
time to go back to venus on business a

516
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,240
month later bernie's wife got some bad

517
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,720
news in washington from eagle pass texas

518
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:32,080
came a package containing some of

519
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,520
harold's personal effects and three

520
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:35,039
hundred dollars in cash

521
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:37,120
with this was a letter from a mr useless

522
00:20:40,710 --> 00:20:38,240
of venus

523
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,720
harold wrote mr useless sorrowfully had

524
00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:43,039
died on venus pauline got the word and

525
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:44,880
she was worried she wrote a letter to

526
00:20:48,310 --> 00:20:46,400
the president on the assumption that

527
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:48,320
only high-ranking u.s officials knew of

528
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:55,909
then as we know bernie's wife gets a

529
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,559
letter from harold bernie saying that he

530
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,320
has been reincarnated he came back to

531
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:02,640
life it's incredible and that he would

532
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:05,360
write again soon

533
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,630
mrs bernie was skeptical pauline began

534
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:13,679
to wonder

535
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:17,760
federal bureau of investigation heard of

536
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:21,840
the business and it began to wonder

537
00:21:26,870 --> 00:21:24,480
harold j bernie's world is falling apart

538
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:26,880
all because he couldn't

539
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,280
stop with faking his own death after

540
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:31,600
getting all the money

541
00:21:35,740 --> 00:21:33,520
we'll be back with the rest of the story

542
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:35,750
in a minute

543
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,960
[Music]

544
00:21:41,750 --> 00:21:40,559
we'll be back next time fielding your

545
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:41,760
questions and comments about this

546
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:44,000
episode so be sure to get those to us in

547
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:45,360
the comments under this episode on the

548
00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:48,159
website on social media or through email

549
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:50,000
and then on the next regular episode

550
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:52,960
it's not a regular episode it's our

551
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:55,360
annual holiday thing

552
00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:56,559
i'm not sure what it's going to look

553
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:59,840
like yet but it'll be fun um a little

554
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:00,799
something lighter going into the

555
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:03,600
holidays in the new year we'll have some

556
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:05,760
bonus stuff here and there appearing

557
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,919
during our traditional end of the year

558
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,440
new year's break and then we're back

559
00:22:14,470 --> 00:22:11,520
with a whole lot of interesting stuff

560
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:14,480
in 2022. you can check out past episodes

561
00:22:17,990 --> 00:22:16,559
and support the show at saucerlife.com

562
00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:18,000
or support us through the link in the

563
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:19,520
show notes we greatly appreciate the

564
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:22,000
support as always we're on twitter and

565
00:22:26,029 --> 00:22:23,679
instagram at saucerlife and you can

566
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:26,039
email us at thesaucerlife

567
00:22:32,149 --> 00:22:29,200
gmail.com you can contact us by post at

568
00:22:33,190 --> 00:22:32,159
chiso media po box 68 grand blank

569
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:33,200
michigan

570
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:34,400
484

571
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:36,960
80 and now

572
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:39,970
let's get back to the courtroom

573
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:47,750
in may 1958

574
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:50,720
um space traveler as he's described in

575
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:54,240
one headline harold j bernie is indicted

576
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:58,080
for his alleged crimes in bilking

577
00:23:02,390 --> 00:23:00,480
pauline gobel out of

578
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:02,400
an amount of 12

579
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,360
500 now we know that's not the entire

580
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:07,600
amount she gave but as we're going to

581
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:09,200
see there's you know there's what you

582
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,080
can

583
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:13,840
one of the interesting things about this

584
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,320
ap story about the indictment is that we

585
00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:18,720
do get some additional details about the

586
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:21,760
story that bernie was telling to gobel

587
00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:24,559
and to others to help support his claims

588
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,919
and persuade them to invest in his

589
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,679
modulator

590
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:31,200
the indictment returned by a federal

591
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:33,039
grand jury charged that bernie quote

592
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,520
obtained money and property end quote by

593
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:37,679
fraudulently representing that his quote

594
00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:40,240
magnetic flux modulator end quote was

595
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:42,400
capable of producing energy from the

596
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:44,559
atmosphere he's accused of telling miss

597
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:47,440
pauline egobl 35 that he received all

598
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,360
his ideas for the modulator from prince

599
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:51,440
euselies of the planet venus and that it

600
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:53,200
was of such scientific importance that

601
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,720
president eisenhower was giving the

602
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:56,799
matter his personal attention and had

603
00:24:01,590 --> 00:23:59,919
discussed it with bernie at camp david

604
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:01,600
so yuselle's as a prince that's good to

605
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:04,240
know and we do know that he met bernie

606
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,799
met with eisenhower at camp david not uh

607
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:08,400
not at the white house there might be

608
00:24:12,549 --> 00:24:10,159
more official records of that and you

609
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,559
certainly can't have anything like that

610
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:14,559
out there because people might get

611
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:17,279
suspicious so we've got an indictment

612
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:19,200
we're going to have a trial down the

613
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:20,080
road

614
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,919
what if anything did flying saucer world

615
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:26,000
think about this well

616
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,120
one

617
00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:29,360
reference to it that

618
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:31,440
i found is in the

619
00:24:35,669 --> 00:24:33,760
new york newsletter or the newsletter of

620
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,679
the new york-based civilian saucer

621
00:24:38,830 --> 00:24:37,760
investigation organization

622
00:24:40,549 --> 00:24:38,840
in may

623
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:40,559
1957

624
00:24:45,669 --> 00:24:42,400
and it's interesting this is their their

625
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:45,679
main newsletter but their article is

626
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:48,400
they say an abridgement from the mobile

627
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:51,840
alabama register from march 26 1957

628
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,720
and it's it's basically the story of his

629
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:56,080
arrest and

630
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:59,600
that's about it we do get a little more

631
00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:01,039
background

632
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,080
from

633
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,799
the special agent in charge who told

634
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:07,440
them told the newspaper which was then

635
00:25:11,190 --> 00:25:08,960
sort of cripped by the flying saucer

636
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:11,200
newsletter that bernie had had a

637
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:12,159
business

638
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:16,799
called the telewand corporation whose

639
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:19,200
goal was to make television antennas and

640
00:25:24,549 --> 00:25:22,640
then he sort of spun this into

641
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:24,559
the venus story and he wrote a book

642
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,520
describing his adventures in outer space

643
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:29,600
now the

644
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:32,559
contribution from the civilian saucer

645
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,960
investigation people in the newsletter

646
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,760
is

647
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,679
set to say quote bernie's book should be

648
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:40,000
an interesting curio has anyone ever

649
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:41,360
heard of it

650
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:43,840
no because it wasn't published it was

651
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,080
just barely typed out maybe if you'd

652
00:25:49,909 --> 00:25:47,840
waited a week for more information

653
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:49,919
before running with the story you would

654
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:50,640
have

655
00:25:54,149 --> 00:25:52,880
known that civilian saucer investigation

656
00:25:56,230 --> 00:25:54,159
people of course i don't know what their

657
00:25:57,830 --> 00:25:56,240
deadline was for their main newsletter

658
00:25:59,269 --> 00:25:57,840
but you'd think it would be i don't know

659
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,279
late enough that they could have gotten

660
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,200
a slightly more updated story unless

661
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:02,640
they didn't care to

662
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:05,200
now nycap the

663
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:08,559
premier ufo investigation agency of the

664
00:26:15,510 --> 00:26:12,240
1950s or so they like to think was

665
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:15,520
deep in the thick of this and upon

666
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:19,120
bernie's arrest and indictment sent a

667
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:20,000
letter

668
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:20,799
or

669
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:27,279
j edgar hoover congratulating him on and

670
00:26:33,750 --> 00:26:30,320
the fbi on the arrest of the saucer

671
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:33,760
swindler harold j bernie and then they

672
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:37,200
trumpeted in their newsletter later that

673
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:39,440
on june 7th the following letter was

674
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:45,750
dear major kehoe i've received your

675
00:26:50,630 --> 00:26:48,559
letter of may 29 1957 concerning our

676
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:50,640
activities in the trip to venus case and

677
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:52,159
i want to thank you for your thoughtful

678
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,120
congratulations sincerely j edgar hoover

679
00:27:06,149 --> 00:27:01,110
the nycap newsletter then explains their

680
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:06,159
policy on ufo fraud

681
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:08,559
whenever nycap determines after thorough

682
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,400
investigation that any published or

683
00:27:14,710 --> 00:27:12,480
publicly stated claims linked with ufos

684
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,720
are fraudulent all the information will

685
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:15,919
be sent to the federal bureau of

686
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:18,559
investigation for such action as the fbi

687
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,710
director may wish to take

688
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,640
[Music]

689
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:24,480
what a bunch of narcs

690
00:27:29,029 --> 00:27:27,440
so here's the thing bernie's case yes we

691
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,039
have to acknowledge bernie's case

692
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:31,919
reinhold schmidt they were using a ufo

693
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:35,360
story to commit actual

694
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:39,679
crimes involving interstate commerce and

695
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:41,200
fraud and

696
00:27:46,470 --> 00:27:44,399
fraudulent securities and all sorts of

697
00:27:48,389 --> 00:27:46,480
actual things that

698
00:27:51,510 --> 00:27:48,399
a jury and a prosecutor would look at

699
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:51,520
and say yep that is a clear violation of

700
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:52,880
u.s code

701
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:53,840
whatever

702
00:27:57,430 --> 00:27:55,600
that's not what nycap is actually saying

703
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:57,440
here though is it

704
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,399
any published or publicly stated claims

705
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:02,960
linked with ufos

706
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:05,279
that are fraudulent

707
00:28:10,149 --> 00:28:08,159
are they saying that if they determined

708
00:28:11,830 --> 00:28:10,159
somebody was telling a fib about a

709
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:11,840
flying saucer story that they were going

710
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:14,159
to call the fbi i think that's what

711
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:18,000
they're saying and if you look at

712
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:19,679
fbi records

713
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:22,559
from various flying saucer individuals

714
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:25,440
especially contactees what you notice is

715
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:28,399
at some point you will probably find a

716
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:29,279
letter

717
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:30,480
from

718
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:34,720
donald kehoe or his assistant secretary

719
00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:36,240
whatever he was

720
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:37,520
richard hall

721
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:39,039
saying i think you should look at this

722
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:41,120
director hoover because i don't think

723
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,960
this is a very true story about flying

724
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:44,399
saucers as opposed to what we do at

725
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,240
nightcap which is completely within the

726
00:28:51,669 --> 00:28:48,640
bounds of the lawn and god bless america

727
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,679
and god bless you director hoover it's

728
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:53,120
really uh

729
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:55,120
bootlicking nonsense

730
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:58,080
anyway the nycap newsletter goes on to

731
00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:00,880
explain why they paid so much attention

732
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:04,640
to the bernie's story

733
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:06,399
the trip to venus story has been given

734
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:09,279
in full detail for two reasons one it is

735
00:29:13,750 --> 00:29:11,600
a reminder to all serious researchers to

736
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,760
search for facts before accepting any

737
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,679
flying saucer stories

738
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:18,159
two it pinpoints the need for at least

739
00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:21,120
equal publicity on genuine verified ufo

740
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:22,159
reports

741
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:26,559
print or are treated tongue-in-cheek

742
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,240
changing this approach will require

743
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:30,640
patience and hard work by nycap and we

744
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:32,720
shall need the help and support of every

745
00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:34,640
member

746
00:29:41,110 --> 00:29:37,039
nycap's approach here as as illustrated

747
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:41,120
by the burning case isn't about the law

748
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:44,000
it isn't about protecting the victims of

749
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:46,960
crime it's about protecting the

750
00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:50,720
integrity of the concept of ufo reports

751
00:29:54,389 --> 00:29:53,120
and ufo investigations as something that

752
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:54,399
is a serious

753
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,200
scientific legitimate business

754
00:30:03,990 --> 00:29:59,600
this is

755
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:04,000
a ufo organization but nightcaps sort of

756
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,279
focus on rooting out and

757
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:09,200
running out of the field anybody they

758
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,640
thought wasn't sufficiently serious is

759
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:14,720
it just kind of makes me

760
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,559
sort of roll my eyes and think about how

761
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:20,000
much

762
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:21,120
effort

763
00:30:26,310 --> 00:30:24,240
they why not just ignore the contactees

764
00:30:28,230 --> 00:30:26,320
why sort of say hey we've got this

765
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:28,240
system where if anybody's telling any

766
00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:30,159
lies we call the fbi

767
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:32,240
who cares you know why don't you

768
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,640
concentrate on improving ufos or

769
00:30:39,350 --> 00:30:36,880
spacecraft from outer space and getting

770
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:39,360
congress to initiate investigations and

771
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:40,960
hearings and and all that oh wait you

772
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,279
did that didn't work did it

773
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,840
people still don't believe your take on

774
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:48,000
the flying saucers after

775
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:50,640
1970 or whatever i don't know

776
00:30:54,070 --> 00:30:53,039
nycap bugs me as you might be able to

777
00:30:56,710 --> 00:30:54,080
tell and we're probably going to be

778
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,720
doing a full-on nightcap episode

779
00:31:01,509 --> 00:30:58,240
sometime in

780
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:01,519
2022. i've uh recently finished i think

781
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:02,720
i've mentioned this before recently

782
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:04,640
finished reading jack brewer's new book

783
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,960
wayward sons about the

784
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:08,799
role of the intelligence community or

785
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,320
entities associated with the

786
00:31:16,149 --> 00:31:12,960
intelligence community in the origins of

787
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:16,159
nycap back in the 1950s and it was a

788
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:19,679
fascinating fascinating read and i think

789
00:31:23,830 --> 00:31:21,600
that it's high time for a nightcap

790
00:31:25,830 --> 00:31:23,840
episode i believe but

791
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:25,840
let's get back to bernie now that we've

792
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:26,799
sort of

793
00:31:31,190 --> 00:31:28,799
smeared nycap and i've complained about

794
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,200
uh donald kehoe

795
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:33,919
which i do at every opportunity

796
00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:36,480
by the fall of 1957

797
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:38,320
bernie's fate had been decided in

798
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:41,760
october bernie pled guilty to fraud by

799
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,080
wire and false pretenses and he faced a

800
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:46,399
maximum of eight years in prison and a

801
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:48,399
thousand dollar fine

802
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:50,320
an ap report appearing in the battle

803
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,000
creek inquirer on november 4th 1957

804
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:56,240
reports that bernie was quoted as saying

805
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:58,000
he had inspected a spaceship which had

806
00:32:01,509 --> 00:31:59,679
landed in texas and had flown in the

807
00:32:03,909 --> 00:32:01,519
ship to venus with prince us of venus

808
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:03,919
with a stopover on the moon while on

809
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:06,399
venus he reportedly said he had learned

810
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:07,440
to make

811
00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:10,159
the power plant that was a quote from

812
00:32:15,509 --> 00:32:13,840
the ap story so in december bernie is

813
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,519
sentenced from

814
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:18,000
quote 20 months to five years in prison

815
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:20,080
so sort of a variable sentence depending

816
00:32:25,590 --> 00:32:23,120
on behavior and things like that in the

817
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:25,600
end he pled guilty to two counts the

818
00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:28,399
government dropped the other six counts

819
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:30,000
when he pled guilty so there was a plea

820
00:32:34,870 --> 00:32:32,720
arrangement and what he was convicted on

821
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:34,880
was defrauding

822
00:32:40,230 --> 00:32:37,039
investors and obtaining three hundred

823
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,240
dollars from pauline goebbel so what

824
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:42,960
ends up happening is she gives him

825
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:45,440
almost forty thousand dollars but he

826
00:32:51,190 --> 00:32:47,840
gets pled down to

827
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:51,200
a guilty plea for taking 300. so that

828
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:53,440
that's kind of disappointing from

829
00:32:56,789 --> 00:32:55,039
uh from her point of view although the

830
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:56,799
story he told was so

831
00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:58,559
outrageous at what point

832
00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:00,880
does it go from being

833
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:03,760
fraud to just being

834
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:06,399
i don't i don't know i you don't i don't

835
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:07,760
want to make it sound like i'm blaming

836
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:10,480
the victim but i can see how if i was a

837
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:11,840
prosecutor

838
00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:14,799
i might not want to take this

839
00:33:19,350 --> 00:33:17,120
to trial i might i might want to just

840
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,360
get a conviction as much as i can

841
00:33:21,990 --> 00:33:21,200
because you're going to be in a position

842
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,000
where

843
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:25,039
the people making the fraud claims look

844
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:27,200
kind of silly on the stand telling the

845
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,120
story i can i don't like it but i can

846
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,279
see why a plea deal might have been a

847
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,080
good option the folks over at saucers

848
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,240
that time forgot uh believe from the

849
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,799
records they've found that bernie was

850
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:40,799
out of prison after

851
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:44,480
two years or so bernie died in maryland

852
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:47,519
in december of 1967.

853
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,320
so after the bernie case was done there

854
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,200
were some other accounts of it and the

855
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,000
two i want to focus on the first is

856
00:34:02,149 --> 00:33:58,640
space age swindle which was in the

857
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:02,159
november 1959 edition of the fbi law

858
00:34:05,990 --> 00:34:04,000
enforcement bulletin this is a

859
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:06,000
publication sent out to law enforcement

860
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:08,639
agencies around the country from the fbi

861
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:11,440
uh highlighting wanted fugitives

862
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:13,839
interesting cases things to be on the

863
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:17,520
lookout for the article begins by

864
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:19,040
acknowledging that the whole flying

865
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:23,280
saucer thing is pretty popular

866
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:24,960
currently publications of the day

867
00:34:28,710 --> 00:34:26,800
contain many articles concerning travel

868
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:28,720
into space and speculation regarding

869
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:30,639
landings on the moon or one of the

870
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:35,030
this article is mostly just a rundown of

871
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,000
the case but we do get some additional

872
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:40,800
information that was in the book that we

873
00:34:46,069 --> 00:34:43,200
can't get our hands on because the fbi

874
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:46,079
won't let anybody see their copy i

875
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:47,359
really wish we could see that book

876
00:34:52,389 --> 00:34:50,879
because this sounds incredible

877
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,399
one of his victims related to

878
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,320
investigating fbi agents that this

879
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,159
imaginative schemer spoke about his

880
00:35:00,230 --> 00:34:58,400
alleged trips to the planet venus how he

881
00:35:02,069 --> 00:35:00,240
was first contacted by an important

882
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:02,079
official of the venus government his

883
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:04,079
sightseeing tours on the planet some

884
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,359
explanation of the planetary

885
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,440
governmental system and his return to

886
00:35:10,950 --> 00:35:09,359
earth again after two weeks on venus and

887
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,960
one stop on the moon

888
00:35:14,550 --> 00:35:12,560
this was allegedly accomplished in the

889
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,560
spaceship he described variously as

890
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,640
being two miles long as big as the

891
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:19,040
pentagon and in the shape of a bell

892
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:21,200
about 100 feet in diameter and about 30

893
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:24,400
or 40 feet thick and having windows

894
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:26,000
the swindler stated that little crime or

895
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,240
dishonesty was evident on venus because

896
00:35:32,550 --> 00:35:30,480
when anyone committed a serious crime he

897
00:35:35,510 --> 00:35:32,560
was just picked up and dropped off on

898
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:37,349
this of course raises the intriguing

899
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,520
possibility that reinhold schmidt was in

900
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:41,520
fact once a native of venus who was

901
00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:43,520
simply dropped off on earth after he

902
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:45,920
ripped off too many people there on his

903
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:48,000
home planet we also got a little more

904
00:35:53,430 --> 00:35:50,480
insight into exactly what he was

905
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:53,440
promising his investors

906
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:54,960
he claimed that a large eastern

907
00:35:58,390 --> 00:35:56,560
corporation had agreed to purchase the

908
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:58,400
manufacturing rights upon the successful

909
00:36:01,829 --> 00:35:59,920
completion of a large model of the

910
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:01,839
modulator which was under construction

911
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:03,280
and to pay all who invested in the

912
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:05,359
project seven times the total amount of

913
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:06,640
their investment

914
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:08,079
additional investments were needed to

915
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:10,000
complete the model but the project was

916
00:36:13,349 --> 00:36:11,680
top secret and could not be discussed

917
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,359
with anyone except a few trusted

918
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:15,599
investors and the scientists and top

919
00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:17,440
government officials who were working on

920
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:20,000
the project

921
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:21,599
perhaps the most interesting article to

922
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:23,520
come out of all of this was the one

923
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:25,839
called the swindler from outer space

924
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:26,800
from

925
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:30,560
this week magazine now this article is

926
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:32,480
part of a series called from the files

927
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:34,960
of the fbi and was written

928
00:36:40,069 --> 00:36:37,520
maybe ghost written just to guess by j

929
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:40,079
edgar hoover the director of the fbi and

930
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:43,040
once again we see sort of dribbling out

931
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,400
trickling out

932
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:47,040
more details about his

933
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:49,359
um about bernie's book and about what

934
00:36:53,829 --> 00:36:50,480
his claims

935
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:53,839
actually were so he went to texas he

936
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:56,240
said a secret trip in

937
00:37:01,829 --> 00:36:59,119
the early 1950s this is what he told

938
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:01,839
pauline gobel who is named as pauline

939
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:05,040
bach in the fbi art or the hoover

940
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:06,240
article i don't know why they gave her a

941
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:08,800
pseudonym her name was in the newspapers

942
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:10,400
just a few years before this is from

943
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,119
1961 by the way anyway

944
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:15,680
we're relating the story of bernie

945
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:19,040
telling pauline about his trip to venus

946
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:22,960
and he enters a flying saucer in texas

947
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:24,800
and he hears

948
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:29,829
inside the saucer i heard a voice

949
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,599
the voice said i'd been chosen as the

950
00:37:35,829 --> 00:37:33,280
representative on earth for the planet

951
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:35,839
venus after a brief conversation the

952
00:37:40,630 --> 00:37:38,640
voice became a visible blue glow and the

953
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:40,640
blue glow suddenly changed into the form

954
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:42,320
of a human being

955
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,880
he identified himself as prince uceles

956
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:46,400
the prince said that his planet was to

957
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:47,839
create a bond of friendship with the

958
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,079
united states and venus had chosen me as

959
00:37:54,069 --> 00:37:52,400
a go-between uceles promised to give his

960
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,079
planet's technological formulas to the

961
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:55,680
united states on condition they were

962
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,160
kept secret at this point two very high

963
00:38:01,990 --> 00:38:00,079
officials of our government i am not at

964
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:02,000
liberty to tell you their names stepped

965
00:38:07,430 --> 00:38:03,599
forward and gave our country's word that

966
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,440
yuseli's every wish would be respected

967
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:08,880
the way the story works there seems to

968
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:11,440
be some heavy overtones of frank

969
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:13,520
strange's

970
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:16,079
val thor stranger at the pentagon story

971
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:18,480
where the the advanced being comes down

972
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:21,040
and offers to do a deal with the united

973
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,960
states and what i would love to have

974
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:24,079
known

975
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:25,119
is

976
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:26,560
what books

977
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:29,680
or speakers or whatever was bernie

978
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:32,480
paying attention to when he crafted this

979
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:35,040
story this article by hoover also gives

980
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:37,200
us some insight into the

981
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:40,400
letters that pauline received from

982
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:42,480
prince euselies

983
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:43,920
they didn't come through the mail they

984
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:46,240
arrived mysteriously on her desk this is

985
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:49,200
after um bernie was

986
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:52,000
supposedly uh supposedly dead the first

987
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,000
letter that pauline received ignored the

988
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,480
fact that bernie had you know been

989
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:59,040
declared dead and said that bernie

990
00:39:03,829 --> 00:39:01,760
actually um he just needs money very

991
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:03,839
much quote i will be able to give him

992
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:05,280
five hundred dollars which will tie his

993
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,880
small bills but he will need about three

994
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,240
thousand for the others this is what

995
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,400
prince uceles wrote to pauline i'm

996
00:39:15,190 --> 00:39:12,800
princess ellie's of venus

997
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:15,200
mr bernie is here on venus with us

998
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:17,520
he needs about three thousand dollars

999
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:19,599
and then five months later she gets a

1000
00:39:25,109 --> 00:39:22,720
letter postmarked from san antonio again

1001
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:25,119
from prince yuselli's

1002
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,200
you know own hand supposedly this time

1003
00:39:31,510 --> 00:39:30,000
requesting 4 500

1004
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:31,520
and

1005
00:39:37,030 --> 00:39:33,440
said this time we do give an update

1006
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,040
bernie is receiving treatment on uh on

1007
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,280
on venus and then she gets a third

1008
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:41,280
letter postmarked at mineral wells texas

1009
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:42,960
on october 3rd

1010
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:44,960
says quote our most worthy friend has

1011
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,960
now passed through a complete process of

1012
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:48,400
regeneration

1013
00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:50,960
and uh he'd be back to

1014
00:39:54,829 --> 00:39:53,040
earth soon he would be coming in and

1015
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:54,839
landing in

1016
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:57,280
dallas so

1017
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:58,800
this this it just

1018
00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:01,200
it's an amazing story and and this is

1019
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,520
pretty much the end of the story but

1020
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:05,680
i i'm just tickled by

1021
00:40:09,270 --> 00:40:08,400
the fact that this bernie guy was such a

1022
00:40:11,750 --> 00:40:09,280
good

1023
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:11,760
con artist that he got away with this

1024
00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:14,240
for so long and was able to get off with

1025
00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:16,480
a relative slap on the wrist and

1026
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:17,680
honestly

1027
00:40:20,230 --> 00:40:19,119
you know

1028
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,240
kept

1029
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:22,160
a lot of money or had a lot of money

1030
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:23,839
well he spent a lot of money other

1031
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:26,160
people's money before anybody thought

1032
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,760
that this might be

1033
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:29,599
a strange thing

1034
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:31,680
now as this episode is going out it's

1035
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:34,079
the holiday season which is a time when

1036
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:38,160
scams run rampant and so as you reflect

1037
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,119
on the story of harold j bernie

1038
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:43,280
and pauline goble

1039
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:46,640
and uh pleasant mccarty who was also in

1040
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,119
for 20 grand or so just remember the

1041
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:50,960
next time somebody tells you they've got

1042
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:52,720
plans for a special device that is being

1043
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:54,880
manufactured but they need your money to

1044
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,880
make it happen and then you'll all be

1045
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:58,880
fantabulously wealthy

1046
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,119
i don't know just

1047
00:41:05,190 --> 00:41:03,280
i don't i don't know don't don't do it

1048
00:41:07,349 --> 00:41:05,200
just don't do it that's my holiday

1049
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:07,359
season public service announcement

1050
00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:10,640
don't do it it might not be real and in

1051
00:41:13,829 --> 00:41:11,839
closing

1052
00:41:16,210 --> 00:41:13,839
ufo might just as well stand for

1053
00:41:22,550 --> 00:41:16,220
unprecedented financial opportunity

1054
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:24,309
had to get that in somewhere thanks for

1055
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:25,839
listening remember to send in questions

1056
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:27,839
and comments via the usual social media

1057
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,000
or email channels and we'll address it

1058
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,000
next time our associate producer is

1059
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,160
simpson j hanover iii and the saucer

1060
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:36,800
life is a production of chiso media llc

1061
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:40,400
chiso media our heart is with the people

1062
00:41:46,070 --> 00:41:41,760
till next time